BEHOLD....The Magpul PTS Masada/ACR

[von_lounger]

Pretty soon, everyone and their mom will have one of these...


Airsoft GI - Magpul PTS Masada Officially Licensed AEG Video Review

[SteevoLS]

I didn't see it on the main site for sale yet, but a while back an insider said it would start around $400 and go up quickly if you wanted different length barrels, etc.

I doubt too many people will get this, in much the same way that not too many guys run around with PTS furniture. However, once a Chiclone company starts cloning it they will show up all over the place.

[IronChef]

ummm...didnt a company already clone this? and they sell for $400???
i see meryls big girl gun in the future....love this gun way over the SCAR!

[SteevoLS]

A&K built their own Masada. MagPul ended up licensing it. This, however, is the ACR.

[Tanker]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOW ....

[von_lounger]

A&K built their own Masada. MagPul ended up licensing it. This, however, is the ACR.

What SteevoLS said +

The A&K is a licensed version of the 2008 prototype Masada. 
[img width=650 height=217]http://world.guns.ru/civil/masada-1.jpg[/img]

After Magpul made some changes and finalized the design, Bushmaster signed an exclusive license deal with Magpul Industries Corp. for the production, future development, and sales of Magpul’s MASADA weapon system, calling it the Adaptive Combat Rifle or ACR.  Like Tim said in the video, Masada/ACR, it's all the same, just depends on who you are buying it from.

[img width=650 height=213]http://world.guns.ru/civil/masada-5.jpg[/img]
[img width=650 height=243]http://world.guns.ru/civil/masada-2.jpg[/img]
[img width=650 height=181]http://world.guns.ru/civil/masada-3.jpg[/img]
[img width=650 height=241]http://world.guns.ru/civil/masada-4.jpg[/img]

[von_lounger]

FROM: usmcCorps on Arnies, who is very close to Magpul - posted Oct 18 2009

---

Alright ... the big news everyone's been waiting for. It's been hard enough (agonizing in fact) knowing all this stuff and not being able to share it with anyone since giving a verbal NDA to Magpul PTS on the matter. I finally got the go ahead to disclose the details regarding the A&K / Magpul PTS Sportsline Masada and the Magpul PTS ACR.


The A&K / Magpul PTS Sportsline Masada:
A few years ago, Magpul Industries began development of the Magpul Masada, their own interpretation of what a Battle Rifle should be. Midway through Magpul's development of the Masada, Magpul PTS, the exclusive license holder for all airsoft replicas of Magpul Industries products, started their own development of the Magpul PTS Masada. Magpul PTS got extremely far into development when Magpul Industries teamed up with Bushmaster to develop the Magpul ACR which was to be an evolution of the Masada designed as a potential candidate for the Military's new primary assault rifle. Problem was, due to the real Masada's impending and undetermined changes, Magpul PTS chose to pause their own development of their airsoft Magpul PTS Masada/ACR until the real ACR's overall design was more locked down.

This is where A&K came in. There was a plethora of information regarding the in-development real Magpul Masada. Most importantly, some gorgeous high resolution side profiles and details that were almost tantamount to being an aesthetic blueprint of sorts. A&K reached out to a group of freelance designers and CAD designers and solicited their assistance in developing a Masada AEG using the many photographic and other online references that were out there. Near the end of A&K's Masada development they had allegedly tried repeatedly to get in contact with Magpul PTS to inquire about getting their version of the Masada licensed as they had heard (and seen) that Magpul PTS was not adverse to the idea of licensing cheaper alternatives as evidenced by STAR's Green Label economy line of inexpensive PMAGs, which was sub-licensed by Magpul PTS to STAR. However, A&K still had absolutely no idea how to contact Magpul PTS and in the end A&K weren't able to discuss the prospect of licensing with Magpul PTS.

A&K was therefore faced with a tough decision. They had spent an incredible amount of money on the unauthorized Masada's development, tooling and molds alone, and that didn't include the exorbitant funds they spent on materials and production for the initial 3000 units they produced. They had to sell at minimum 10,000 units just to break even on the initial development costs. Do they just release the A&K Masada and risk copyright infringement, or do they try to reach out to Magpul PTS again through some other means? With investors breathing down their necks and a lot of their own money poured into their version of the Masada, they chose to release it and see what happens. The design group behind the development of the ACM Masada, acted as a relatively low profile distributor/retailer and between individual customer sales, Ebaybanned (briefly) and Monda Int. reselling more of the Masadas, the units started to trickle out. As we all know, Magpul PTS was quick to try and prevent the distribution and sale of the ACM Masada and were relatively successful. For those that think "A&K are doing just fine, they're moving a lot of ACM Masadas regardless of Magpul PTS' attempts to stop them", the truth was far from that. Moving a few hundred units over the course of several months was painstaking and debilitating to A&K's finances. As it had been previously established, A&K needed to sell 10,000 units just to cover the bare minimum of costs of development and they needed to move that many units in a matter of a few months, however at that point they had barely seen returns on one fifth the necessary sales. Over the course of several months, they had finally sold out their first three thousand units. They then went onto produce a couple thousand more, and later on another thousand units. Financially, this was a disaster.

It wasn't until A&K were speaking with a US distributor, and explained their woes, that they were finally put directly in touch with Magpul PTS. A&K were both apologetic and brutally honest with Magpul PTS. More than that though, they were desperate. A&K laid out their circumstances with Magpul PTS, explained the entire back story behind the A&K Masada's development, their finances (they showed Magpul PTS their financial books) as well as their attempts to contact Magpul PTS about licensing the product. Say what you want about Magpul PTS, one thing I have come to learn about the executive director of Magpul PTS is his appreciation for honesty in those he deals with. And it was that honesty and sincerity Magpul PTS saw in A&K that kept the door open to discuss licensing. During extensive conversations between Magpul PTS's design group, the director of Magpul PTS said that they respected what A&K were able to accomplish and that A&K had done a relatively fantastic job developing their version of the A&K Masada given the very limited resources and references A&K had at their disposal (I.e. side profile pictures found online, youTube videos ... and a lot of guess work). That said, without the necessary details, the A&K Masada was close, but off in certain areas including most notably a slight undersizing scale issue. Also, Magpul PTS noted that the version A&K had produced was a replica based on the earlier Masada design, whereas Magpul PTS' design was an exact replica of the Magpul/Bushmaster ACR. There was definitely room in the market for a "Masada" as well as the newer ACR. During discussions with A&K, Magpul PTS made it clear that they would license A&K to manufacture their version of the Masada, however, A&K must assist Magpul PTS in trying to stop all the unauthorized ACM development of Magpul PTS products in Mainland China (which A&K did assist with and thus the unauthorized ACM FMG-9 and ACM Massoud ceased development). Furthermore, only the A&K/Magpul PTS Sportsline Masadas that have the legitimate authorized Magpul PTS Holographic label and unique serial number that Magpul PTS issued are allowed to be sold. Only the authorized Sportsline Masadas possess warranties ... upheld by A&K themselves. Any retailers/distributors found selling the old stock of Masadas without the Magpul PTS authorized holographic label will face legal action. Aside from that, in has not been disclosed how much the licensing fee cost A&K, but I was led to believe A&K didn't pay a ridiculous amount for it. Simply that A&K are now allowed to sell their authorized version of the Masada and any accessories that are designed for it (like separate barrel assemblies and spare parts). So no, Magpul PTS did NOT buy all of A&K's Masadas. Anyone saying that has either been misinformed or is giving false information. Magpul PTS licensed A&K to manufacture and distribute a Sportsline version of the Masada just as Magpul PTS licensed Star to manufacture and sell the "Green label" budget minded realCap PMAGs. The new MSRP of the Sportsline Masada is undetermined right now. US$250 is possible and that is a price I heard from a few sources, but not from Magpul PTS. Magpul PTS isn't dictating what the price must be and are leaving it completely up to A&K. Before you cry bloody murder at the potential price increase, the change is in part to do with the licensing fee, but by A&K's own admittance, they had previously sold their unauthorized A&K Masada almost at cost to try and recoup the hefty development costs. Now that they are able to sell the Masada as an authorized replica out in the open and with relative impunity, they're absolutely going to start doing everything they can to make profit on these guns as fast as possible. And that's where the biggest increase in the price is coming from.

That was the first major announcement that was supposed to come out last week and what I had been alluding to since my return from Hong Kong. During my trip there, I was told that the licensing deal was pretty much completed and the official announcement on the deal was to go out in a couple weeks once A&K had corrected the current stock of their Masadas. The delay of that announcement was due to the issues A&K has been facing with the Chinese Government for producing imitation/toy firearms (which is a severe offense in China ... in case anyone reading this hasn't been keeping up with current events). Oh, and hefty lawyer fees dealing with the government may also be driving up the Masada's cost. Paul from EbayBanned, as he often does, jumped the gun a little bit and implied the upcoming release of some kind of Masada by posting pictures on his website. This kind of behavior has gotten Paul in trouble a few times in the past (and this was no exception as Magpul PTS didn't want it announced yet), but this time ... while it was still a little premature, it kind of worked out for everyone (mostly the consumers and distributors) as it allows me to spill the beans about the upcoming releases. So that was to be the first major announcement.

This is also why I have been cautioning everyone from buying the current crop of A&K Masadas, because if you bought an unauthorized one, I don't believe it has any warranty. It may do, but you'll have to take that up with A&K directly.

So in summary : Magpul PTS has licensed A&K to rerelease the A&K Masada as a Magpul PTS licensed Sportsline Masada. The licensed A&K Masda MUST have a Magul PTS Authorized Holographic Label and unique serial number to be sold by any distributor or retailer. You should be seeing this product available for sale shortly (I want to say within the next week to two weeks, but it is all depending on A&K's current legal situation).



The Magpul PTS ACR:
Wow ... where do I begin? My adventure with the Magpul PTS ACR (Adaptive Combat Rifle) began with a visit to the Magpul PTS offices. Actually, it started several days prior to that, when Orca called me on the phone and said "There's big news coming down the pipe from Magpul PTS ... but I can't say what. But you'll see for yourself!" Needless to say, I was excited and yet apprehensive about what might be revealed to me. Fast forwards a couple weeks, I'm in Hong Kong sitting in Magpul PTS's office. They know I know something is up ... but I don't know what exactly. And just like that, the director of Magpul PTS looks me square in the eyes and says ... "Hey, you want to check out the Magpul PTS ACR?" I just about choked to death on my bottle of water. Heck yeah! Bring it on! They explained to me that no one outside of Magpul PTS, and that includes none of the distributors, retailers, and outside friends had laid eyes on the Magpul PTS ACR yet ... and that I would be the first. It took about 5 minutes to find and accumulate all the parts of the PTS ACR. Yes you heard that right. They've been so secretive about it's development, they had the gun split up into various parts scattered and hidden all over the office into various boxes, cabinets, nooks and crannies. As the parts were laid out in front of me, and started to come together, my jaw just dropped. It was like watching the most beautiful collection of highend parts I've ever seen in any airsoft gun. When he finally had the gun assembled a couple minutes later, I held (more like cradled) it in my arms pretty much not believing what I had before me. This gun, looked, weighed, felt, and smelt, like a real gun.

Here are the details you all want to know:
• Entire CNC'ed upper receiver from a block of 6061 Aluminum Billet (not from a casting!). The upper receiver obvious continues into the top rail giving an uninterrupted top Picatinny rail. The CNC'ing was gorgeous and flawless.
• Two optional handguards: a Polymer one and an Aluminum railed one (also CNC'ed from 6061 Aluminum Block), which can be quick swapped between the two.
• Two optional stocks: A Folding stock and a fixed stock which can be quick swapped. The fixed stock is very reminiscent of the Magpul UBR. The Dupont Polymer used throughout these guns are phenomenal. And yes, I got it straight from Magpul PTS, the polymer they use is widely considered one of the best polymers available on the commercial/industrial market anywhere.
• Optional quick swap barrel assemblies: Definitely 11.5" and 14.5" barrels, and perhaps later on a 18" SPR barrel. All barrels are tool-less quick-change barrel systems. They're quick swappable just like the real thing and very solid. Each barrel has its own hopUp chamber that's fully enclosed within the barrel assembly.
• Magazine Compatibility: Compatible with all standard 5.56 AEG mags (TM spec like most AEG M16 mags are) and obviously Magpul PTS PMAGs.
• 5.56mm (AR style) OR 7.62mm (AK style) QUICK SWAPPABLE LOWER ASSEMBLIES!!! Yes you read that right, just like on the real gun. The ACR has a modified G36 gearbox which has the motor directly attached to the gearbox via a caged design. You pull one pin, the entire lower receiver unhooks from the upper receiver. You pull another pin, the entire gearbox + motor can be pulled out of the 5.56 lower receiver, and the gearbox can then be dropped into the ACR's 7.62 lower receiver. Push the pin back in to lock the gearbox in place, hook the 7.62 lower receiver onto the upper receiver, lock the last pin in to reassemble the gun, and you're GOOD TO GO!!! Some battery connectors may need to be unplugged and replugged along the way (can't recall exactly), but swapping lower receivers was quick and painless. There are gears on either side of the 5.56 and 7.62 receivers that interface with gears on either side of the gearbox which allows full ambidextrous controls of the selector. The 7.62 setup on the Masada looks absolutely badåss.
• 7.62 Magpul PTS AK style polymer magazines. Because the PTS ACR is slightly unique in design, they couldn't make quick swappable 5.56/7.62 lower receivers AND have the gun compatible with the TM Spec AK AEG magazines already on the market. As a result they've made their own 7.62 AK style polymer midcaps which will probably have a 150 BB capacity. These magazines will be made out of a smokey, slightly clear polymer so you can see how many rounds you have left, and yet won't obviously look like you have BBs in there to a fellow player (so it won't obviously look like a toy). After using King Arms' Replica Lancer MidCap Magazines, I'm personally very excited about smoke clear polymer mags. Price is yet to be determined. Probably en par with the regular PMAGs.
• Quick swap AEG spring: Removal of a screw at the rear of the gearbox gives you direct access to the gearbox's AEG spring for a quick swap to a spring of your choosing, without the need to disassemble the gearbox itself. I *think* you didn't have to take the gearbox out of the lower receiver either. You just had to slide the stock off to gain access to it.
• The internals are robust and are modified to Magpul PTS's own design. The default FPS will be 350fps using 0.2g BBs. However, depending on which country the gun ships to, the various distributors will receive an ACR with a FPS that falls within the legal allowed limits of the country. So if you're in the EU somewhere and buy an ACR directly from a Hong Kong online store rather than a local distributor, I'm not sure if the HK store will down grade the gun for you. That said, they shouldn't charge you much if they did down grade it ... putting a softer spring in the gun takes mere seconds.
• Front wired. Wired in the front in the handguard. Can't recall exactly what the battery storage capability was. I rarely pay attention to that detail nowadays as I only use Lipos now. It definitely had room for more than just Lipos though.
• 14mm CounterClockwise Threads. I seem to recall that it ships with a regular birdcage or Phantom style flashhider. Whatever the real ACR ships with is what the Magpul PTS ACR will ship with.
• Most up to date version of the ACR: The ACR has gone through a lot of changes since the Masada was first developed. Most notably the charging handle's position has been moved forwards to avoid interference with optics and manipulation of the charging handle. Everything that should be ambi-dextrous is on the PTS ACR.
• Gas blow back capable. Already in development, they've designed the Magpul PTS ACR so that the GBB system they're designing will drop right into the gun once you remove the gearbox+motor assembly. The GBB parts will come later and won't be available immediately upon the ACR's release ... but they are nearly finished with the design. I think the biggest hold up is the magazines. And before anyone asks, I don't know if it's going to be like any of the existing GBB systems out on the market today. It's most likely going to be similar to the WA system according to how it was described.
• Three colors: The ACR will be available in Magpul FDE, Black and Foliage Green.
• A relatively competitive price: MSRP US$450. The Magpul PTS ACR in its default retail configuration (14.5" barrel, polymer handguard, fixed stock) will have a retail MSRP of around US$450. The price is fluctuating right now as Dupont (the polymer supplier) is increasing their own costs dramatically. About a month back it was $350, now it's closer to $450 depending on Dupont's Polymer prices. They were deliberating about having a version released that had a folding stock instead of the fixed stock, however due to the complexity of the folding stock and costs involved in manufacturing them ... having the exact same ACR but with the folding stock instead would increase the MSRP by about $100. So for now, they're probably going to sell the default configuration with the fixed stock (which I actually really liked (looks a lot like the UBR) and preferred over the folding one) at the estimated $450 MSRP. All accessories: the folding stock, separate barrel assemblies, metal railed handguard, 7.62mm lower receiver (which will come with three of the 7.62 PTS polymer midcaps), and spare 7.62 midcaps, will all be sold separately and will all be available at the same time as the ACR's release. (The Gas Blow Back parts will come later). When asked how much it would cost to have a package deal in which a customer could buy the ACR with ALL the aforementioned accessories in one box, they estimated the cost may be around $750. Yes, not cheap, but, Jesus, I would drop that much in a heart beat for all that I saw there. This is without a doubt the most highend airsoft gun I have ever seen and/or held. I have paid far more for guns that didn't come within a hundred yards of this gun's quality and expandability in terms of features.
• Release date: It will be out before the end of the year. They will have production models available at the Las Vegas SHOT Show in January. They should be at airsoft retailers by this Christmas. The one I held was their final prototype. The molds have been finalized, and approved. Production is imminent. They may in fact have already started.

So in summary : Magpul PTS ACR = AWESOMENESS, Around US$450 (MSRP), Available before the end of the year, Butt load of awesome accessories.


* Amendment : My apologies for taking so long to post this info. I had most of this written over a month ago, but I had to remove about 1/3 of the details as they were a little too insider info revealing. I think this is my fifth rewrite of this thread. But I think you get the gist.

[Jeremy314]

Amazing how Orca shows up even in AOSC threads

Anyway... I want one.. have always wanted one... but probably won't be able to get it for a while...

[IronChef]

it wont be out for "awhile"...saw one at nra expo(airsoft and real)....

[Mack]

I didn't much care for it until I shot the real steel. Now I want both an airsoft and a real steel version.

[Inked]

I didn't much care for it until I shot the real steel. Now I want both an airsoft and a real steel version.

I'm not a fan of the bushy ACR and I shot the enhanced version..... not to sure about the AS version either.

[von_lounger]

Here is a look inside...

Airsoft GI - Inside Look at the Magpul Masada

[Dominum]

A V2 with a motor cage... interesting. The internals don't look half bad.

[Jeremy314]

sure that was a V2? never seen a V2 with a short motor...? Maybe they're rare, but I really don't think I've seen any with that short motor... maybe it's a hybrid, and it's supposed to be PTS's OEM parts.

[von_lounger]

Looks like a modified Version 8.    ...Version 9?  :roll:

[img width=798 height=321]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/ ... mes/gb.jpg[/img]